S2EP12-Dr.Roz-Debt-Free Dreams: How to Send Your Kids to College Without Student Loans!

Herb: 00:00:19

Today I have the pleasure of introducing Dr. Elizabeth Rosner as the founder and chief Educational officer of Debt Free Degree, affectionately known as Dr. Roz. Dr.

Roz is a visionary leader dedicated to empowering students achieve their academic dreams without the burden of student loan debt. With a personal education journey marked by an exceptional academic achievement and minimal debt, Dr.

Ross has become a beacon of hope and a source of invaluable guidance for students and families navigating the complexities of higher educational financing. Dr. Ross's passion for education is matched by her commitment to cultivating a culture of nonviolence and love as inspired by the teachings of Dr.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Through her Love Revolution and the promotion of nonviolence365 she encourages individuals and communities to embrace peaceful and compassionate ways of living. It is a pleasure to talk with you today, Dr. Roz.

We are really looking forward to this conversation and how we can help kids get through college debt free.

Dr. Roz: 00:01:18

Yay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am so delighted to be with y'all.

I am just honored that you've chosen me to be a part of your podcast and excited to have this conversation with y'all.

Kristina: 00:01:31

Thank you again for being here. So let's just jump into the why. You know, your bio is amazing. It tells us who you are and what you do.

But what was that turning point or what was that thing that kind of started you down this path of helping families become debt free going through college?

Dr. Roz: 00:01:47

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I, I knew from birth that I was going to college. It was not an option. And at that I was, I was born in the last millennium.

And so my parents, you know, it wasn't really an option to do trade school or entrepreneurship or it was, you're going to go get a four year degree and as a family we do into debt for education. And so I just simply thought that that's what everybody did.

And so my parents did not open up the, the beautiful catalog of all the higher ed institutions in the world or in the United States and say, okay, love, where would you like to go? It was, here's your budget and here's what were the constraints are. Now you find something within this that, that we're going to do.

And so it was not until: 2005

ce piece did not happen until: 2018

So I don't know if you necessarily want me to go there too and kind of how it converged, but, but that's the debt free degree piece.

ght here, he was a student in: 2005

But that is a picture of me and Shaheen and his six oldest kids who are in middle school, high school and college. All of them are on track to earn a deb free degree.

Kristina: 00:04:00

That is amazing and exciting and wow.

Herb: 00:04:03

Yeah, we didn't do that. We. So both of us were the first of our families to graduate from college. So we are the. So.

So we had no idea before we got to college what college was like doing. But again this was. We graduated in 92, 93 and so we ended up both with around like 15 to $20,000 in debt, which back then was quite a bit.

You know, right now that's like less than outlandish. Right now that's like less than one quarter tuition. But back then, so it took us, it was in.

And when we graduated and we had those all combined, it was pretty burdensome, even though it wasn't that very big. And yes. And the way the student loans are structured, it's almost like a lifelong debt now.

Dr. Roz: 00:04:57

Yes.

Herb: 00:04:58

And so, you know, I've even seen videos online of people who say, yeah, I've been paying my student loans for 15 years, I've been paying extra. And I finally went and looked at it and my principal balance is only down by $3,000 and I've paid like $50,000 back to my loan.

How can it only be down $3,000? So right now it's like our debt system is like completely screwed up. They're creating debt slaves out of our college students.

Dr. Roz: 00:05:27

Yes.

Herb: 00:05:27

And so, so what you're talking about right now for, for people who might not have gone to college and want their Kids to go to college. Right, Listen up.

Because, because you don't want your children to be debt slaves to an education, especially right now, because our education system is pretty screwed up, which is why we go talk about homeschooling so much.

Dr. Roz: 00:05:48

Yes, yes, yes. And on top of that, Herb, you know, there, there are some student loans.

So you know, if you take out a loan for a car, you take out a lo, then you do have an asset that you can sell to recoup some of that. Hopefully you're not upside down in that, but even so you could recoup some of that.

And if you pass away and that debt is passing to your heirs, they too have something that they can sell to recoup that. When you have a degree and that is in your head and you pass away, that knowledge cannot be sold.

However, there are some student loans that, that debt goes to your heirs, not them. But there are some that do. And so they have to pay off those student loans. Yes. It is predatory. It is indentured servitude.

Kristina: 00:06:37

I did not realize that that happened. I thought whenever you passed away your student loans, because they're tied to you, just disappeared.

Dr. Roz: 00:06:45

But some do and some don't. Right.

Kristina: 00:06:48

Do you have specific names for the ones that do or don't? I mean, it's one of those things that if they have a choice, let's not go down this loan path.

Dr. Roz: 00:06:55

Well, so everything that I do is geared towards. Exactly. Not of saying no to student loans. Yeah.

Now where I get some pushback are from like financial advisors who are looking at, okay, you've got X amount of money in the market. You can make this amount of money. If you take the loan, then it's this amount of interest rate.

Well, then my head explodes because that's not my target audience. You know, I don't want to get stuck on the don't take loans. It's the stuck on don't have the debt.

You know, so that's the simplest way that I explain it is let's just say no to loans.

Herb: 00:07:27

Yeah.

And that, and that if there are so many ifs in those statements, it's like, yeah, if you get a job that makes that much money and just because you have a degree doesn't mean you're not still going to end up as a barista at Starbucks.

Dr. Roz: 00:07:40

Right.

Herb: 00:07:40

And so, you know, there are so many people out there with college degrees who are ending up with, with very low end jobs having nothing whatsoever to do with their to college for.

Dr. Roz: 00:07:50

Right, right. I even so, so my My educational trajectory is that I have three degrees, including my PhD, and I only took a thousand dollars in loans.

And it was because I qualified for Pell Grant in college and I was on the quarter system. I actually graduated 92, so I don't know which of y'all graduated 92, but I'm right there with y'all. So he, the Pell Grant didn't pay in the summer.

And so I realized I needed to take a summer quarter and financial aid, which was there to aid me to get scholarships. That was in my mind, what financial aid does. And I said, I'm looking for some scholarships.

And for those of you that are listening, I'm from Georgia, you can probably hear my accent. So I walked into financial aid and I said, hey, I just realized that there's a bill that I've got this summer. I need to apply for some scholarships.

And she said, oh, sweetie, we don't have any scholarships, but we have this loan. So here, just sign right here and you can just figure out how to pay it off later. It's just a thousand dollars. And so I, I had like two weeks.

Now, again, my parents had said from day one, we do not go into debt for education. And still I was like, rock in a hard place. What do I do?

Because I didn't plan and I didn't prepare and because this kind woman said to me, you'll figure out later, again, a thousand dollars is not really that much money then or now. It's certainly, you know, it was doable to pay off. However, it's that mindset.

And that was against what, you know, what I was raised with fast forward. I earned my master's completely debt free. I earned my PhD completely debt free.

When I graduated with my PhD and these, my parents were brilliant and loving and, you know, absolutely, you know, guided me in the very best way that they could. And at that time, it was all about get as much education as you can and you can write your own ticket. And so I got my Ph.D.

just like, you know, I was not expected to do, but I really wanted to do. And so I probably applied for over 100 jobs and did not even get one interview.

And so the, the job that I took right after I earned my PhD, I had been staying at home and there were some family dynamics of why I wasn't working full time while I was in school, but I was ready to go back and into full time employment and wanted to go back into higher ed and could not get any teaching jobs with a PhD even though you can write your own ticket.

And so I took a job that actually required a high school diploma and that I took that position because I knew that the director of that unit was going to be retiring in a year and a half. So I took the position so that I could apply for that position. And, and that's. That, that is a whole different trajectory.

I, you know, I think that you all are, are people of faith and your listeners are people of faith. And God was like, oh, Elizabeth, that's not. We had for you. We had this whole other thing built for you.

But you can imagine how demoralizing it was that that was the only job that I could get when I went.

Herb: 00:11:02

To College in: 1988

And in: 1990

So when I graduated in 92, there were 50,000 people with years of experience in the job market that I had just got a degree and I ended up in retail management. And there were people that were coming in off the street shopping and I would get them jobs in management. And it's like they didn't. Yeah.

So it was like completely. My degree was, was basically wasted. Yeah. And then I ended up in technology working at a, at a microelectronics firm, a little small one called Intel.

You might have heard of it.

Dr. Roz: 00:12:01

Oh, I think I have heard of that.

Herb: 00:12:03

Yeah. And had zero whatsoever to do with, with any degrees or any education.

Kristina: 00:12:09

Except the blessing there is that intel would only hire people with degrees.

Herb: 00:12:13

But, but it didn't use my degree at all.

Kristina: 00:12:15

Didn't use this specific.

Dr. Roz: 00:12:16

Right, right now that's a whole nother conversation about organizations that, that put those stipulations in place. You know, it's a little bit like, you know, you got to layer this on to, to prove that we need this, and you got to layer this on.

And I, I know I, in student affairs, I said, why is it that every single school has the hoop to do dorm and the hoop to do gym? And she said, we got to compete, you know, we can't.

You know, and that's, you know, it's like as, as prices go up, then these prices go up and these prices go up and you know, and then it's just so inflated and, and I think that we are on the cusp of Really a realignment in higher education. I think y'all are seeing that in the, the P12 system as well. So.

Herb: 00:13:01

Yeah, especially in college, you know, kind of, kind of got to bring this up because we are talking about financing and stuff.

But right now Jordan Peterson has the Peterson Academy and the, the, it's an online college education and they're working on certification so that people can get jobs. But it's, it's like you can get world class education there at a fraction of the price.

And so I've actually been looking at taking some classes through.

Kristina: 00:13:26

Excellent.

Herb: 00:13:26

Through the Peterson Academy as well.

Dr. Roz: 00:13:28

Excellent. That's excellent.

Herb: 00:13:29

But, but for, for, you know, for a lot of tech jobs, for a lot of very specific kind of work, you do need a college degree. And so for people who, who are going to college for that, that is, that is, you're, you're still very, very helpful.

So for instance, if you want to be a doctor, if you want to be a lawyer, you do have to go teacher, you have to go to.

Kristina: 00:13:53

School, you have to go there.

Herb: 00:13:56

And so, you know, one of the things that we, through homeschooling especially is because you do get to find your passion and then we, one of the ways we help is, is go to college for what you know you're going to do. So many people go to college because they don't know what they're going to do.

Kristina: 00:14:14

They go figure it out once they get there.

Herb: 00:14:17

And so for those people who are going to be doing that, God bless you, hope, wish for you the best and pay attention to this because you don't want to, to go into debt slavery for. Yeah, for trying to find yourself.

Dr. Roz: 00:14:33

Yeah, right. You know, I have a, a book. So here is a shameless plug of the book Debt Free Degree. And throughout there I tell the story of Henry.

And Henry went to college to find himself. Exactly. Like you said, Henry was very strong in his faith. And so he went to a private faith based institution, which means it was private.

So tuition was high. It also means that it did not transfer to the.

In state institutions where the tuition was lower, you know, many of the classes did not necessarily transfer. And when I encountered Henry, a bachelor's degree is usually about 120 credit hours.

He had over 200 credit hours and not exaggerating, had changed his major five times.

Kristina: 00:15:18

Oh my gosh. Wow.

Dr. Roz: 00:15:20

He had over something like 75, $80,000 in debt when I encountered him. And I put him on a path, of course I couldn't do anything about what he'd already accrued Right. Put him on a path.

And he didn't have his degree either.

Kristina: 00:15:33

Right.

Dr. Roz: 00:15:33

And so I put him on a path to finish that bachelor's degree at that, you know, private institution. He did it in two semesters because again, he only needed five classes. But of course one was a prereq for the other.

And so then he had to go for two semesters. So we did, we mapped out a plan for those two semesters and then he got his master's completely debt free and he is on to his PhD.

I've lost track of him. And so I need to, I would love to figure out if I could find him again, but he was.

Herb: 00:16:01

So let's kind of go into that a little bit. So how do you start working on this debt free? So for our parents it's like, okay, that, yeah, that sounds great. What, what is a step?

How do you, how do you do that?

Dr. Roz: 00:16:14

So one I've already mentioned, and that is from birth, when, when you, when you first have that child come into your home and you're holding that child and you're thinking about all the dreams that you have for that child.

And if that dream includes some type of education post high school, which I believe 99.9% of jobs do require some type of education post high school, whether it's in entrepreneurship or the Jordan Peterson Academy or, you know, a technical degree, something.

And that can be simultaneous, obviously, because there's some, you know, places you can graduate high school and with your degree in welding or with an associate's degree at the same time, that's a different, you know, different trajectory. Just add the words debt free.

Just, just say you are going to go to college and you're going to do it debt free because you can set that as your intention and then that's what's going to happen. And that's how I was able to do my three degrees. So just adding that and I mush it together. It's not hyphenated. It is, it is its own word. Debt free.

Debt free degrees, its own word. So that's number one. Number two, you cannot start too early on this process.

So I only for, for Shaheen, who has the 12 kids I only had in their middle school, high school and their college kids, but I could have had their elementary school kids in there too, only because they're already having conversations with them about what does it look like to be an entrepreneur. All, all 12 of them will be entrepreneurs. The youngest one is two and a half. She's not yet an entrepreneur.

But all of the older ones, they all have their online businesses and, and, or, or entrepreneurship businesses. Some of them are online and you know, it's just having those conversations.

But I love, love, love starting with the middle school and saying let's, let's get this mindset today. So what will happen is, you know, there's this cacophony of noise that number one says just take the loans and figure out how to pay it off later.

So I need to break through that. And number two, there's this other cacophony of noise that says, oh, middle school is way too early to think about college.

We'll put it off till high school. And then high school will say, I wish I knew this in middle school. And everybody is having this, this swirl of you know what?

It's never a great time to do a debt free degree. You know what? It's never a great time to, to go from the couch where you're £400 to run in a marathon. It's just never a great time to start that.

You know, it's like you got to start it today because it is, it's very, very easy. I mean we, we can do this. You know, it's just not that. Day in, day out perseverance is, is going to be what it takes. But it's not right.

You know, you read this and you go, well, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, yeah. There's not like a little, little nugget in there where I go put this into a website and you know, here's a hundred grand.

Kristina: 00:19:04

That's not going to happen.

Dr. Roz: 00:19:06

Yeah, start from birth, that you're going to graduate debt free. Every, every child that you have access to.

And because of Yalls model, then there are a lot of people that are watching that have access to the kids that they are homeschooling. But also depending on the model, they might be homeschooling a whole bunch of other people's kids and vice versa, you know.

And so whoever you have access to, then strongly encourage them to never say yes to a student loan.

Kristina: 00:19:35

I love that, love that, love that. And it goes completely along with all the things that we teach around finance and things like that.

It's like, you know, let's start living within our means. That means you don't have to have the fanciest of everything. Right. And that doesn't mean to live at the bottom either.

Dr. Roz: 00:19:50

Right.

Kristina: 00:19:50

But live within your means. Know what you can pay for, know what you can't pay for.

Make a plan to save up for those things that you really, really want to pay, like a college degree, etc. And I love that and having that mindset from the very beginning it's like yeah, let's do this without the debt.

Herb: 00:20:09

Yeah. And you know, that is actually, I'm going to say kind of in the woo world thing.

It's like if you go, if you set that intention and you live by that intention, then that is what's going to happen. And, and that's about you know, creating your reality as you go. And mindset is everything around that.

So it's like if you, if you, you know, they're so cliche especially in the sports worlds. If you see it and you, you can believe it. And it's also true that if you believe it then you'll see it.

So there's so much of that in, in how you think and as you. So if you're thinking, oh yeah, well I know I'm gonna have to get student loans, well that's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Then you're going to have to get student loans.

But if you get to the point where internally you know that you can get through it debt free, then the only then the next step is to figure out what the steps are to do that.

Dr. Roz: 00:20:58

That's right.

Herb: 00:20:59

About it's not. Yeah.

Dr. Roz: 00:21:01

So that's right. That's right. That's exactly what happened with my masters. So I, I only have one biological child. I have 15 others.

Shaheen is one of them that call me mama. But I just have one biological child. He was born in June of 99 and so maternity leave.

I went back to work September of 99 and at the very end of that month I get an email that says hey, we have some leftover funding and we're looking for folks who want to earn a complete debt free masters in your field. It starts online. It's an online program which this is 99. So online was, was quite unheard of.

I was living on a tiny little island in South Georgia called St. Simon's and this was through San Diego State University. So l elite online and nationwide. And, and it starts in three weeks.

So we need your GRE scores, we need all your things. I mean that's, that's exactly what happened her is I had set my intention. I knew I wanted my masters. I didn't know how that was going to happen.

And then this opportunity fell in my lap. Now was it easy? No, no, no. It was very simple but not easy. It took me essentially nine years.

Herb: 00:22:15

That's eventually going to Be the name of my podcast is Simple Not Easy, not easy. Those are because, you know, it's simple to do, but it's also simple not to do.

Dr. Roz: 00:22:25

Yes.

Herb: 00:22:25

And, and so a lot of the things it's like, it's, it's really simple steps, but they're not always easy. You know, it takes perseverance, it takes grit, it takes integrity, it takes discipline. And so there. It's simple, but it's not always easy.

Dr. Roz: 00:22:41

Yes. So I have to say this, Herb. I, I use the GRIT blueprint in Debt Free degree and you just said grit.

So if I could just explain the GRIP blueprint really quickly, it's easy to remember. The G is grants and scholarships. There is a hundred billion with a B, $100 billion in grants and scholarships out there.

So when people say no scholarships for me or you know, I'm white, there are no scholarships for me or I'm a mediocre student, there are no scholarships for me. That's a lie. That is such a lie. $100 billion. Yes. The R is return on investment. Exactly like what you were saying, Christina.

Let's live within our means. Let's look at that roi. The I is interconnection, so work smarter, not harder. And the T is what I call my proven triangle approach.

So think of a three legged stool. There's sm, which is student money. Then there's fm.

So your friends, your family, your folks, the people you're familiar with, what are they going to contribute to your degree? And then opm, which is our favorite. And do you all know what that is?

Herb: 00:23:38

Other people's money.

Dr. Roz: 00:23:40

There you go. That's what it takes. That's the RIP blueprint right there. There you go. There's the whole thing on how you graduate debt free.

Kristina: 00:23:49

That's awesome because I can hear my parents in the audience sitting here right now. It's like, okay, wait a second, there's other things Besides loans. And Dr. Ross just started mentioning them.

Grants, scholarships, etc and not talking with you, but somebody else we talked with. There are some scholarships that elementary school kids can apply and get and one of the easiest ones, and I hopefully is still there.

I'm not sure, but the backgrounds in Google.

Dr. Roz: 00:24:17

Yes, the Google doodle.

Kristina: 00:24:18

Yeah, yeah, Google, you can draw a picture, submit it to that to be a background and if your child gets chosen, it's like a thousand dollar scholarship towards their school. So right there, elementary school, you can get something.

Dr. Roz: 00:24:32

And that one, actually, that one starts at kindergarten.

Kristina: 00:24:34

It does it. Okay.

Herb: 00:24:36

And they change, they change the drawing every Single day. So there's 365 days where you need something. And so 365 kids get $1,000 scholarship every year for doodling on Google.

Dr. Roz: 00:24:50

Yes, exactly, exactly.

Kristina: 00:24:52

Yeah, yeah. So is there another avenue that you feel that you can share that parents can kind of start looking at?

Because you know, they have to go out and search. Is there, is there one big website where they get to go and find all the scholarships in one place? Or is it a little bit grittier than that?

Dr. Roz: 00:25:09

Yeah, I wish that there was, I wish that there was. The, the, the, the follow that I recommend on Instagram is the Scholarship Informer.

And so she has vetted those scholarships and all the ones that she posts on Instagram are all phenomenal scholarships. And she has a group program where she works with her students and my students can take part in that for as little as $25 a month.

So it's a group program. It's not a 1:1 individualized program.

I do have some families who've worked with her in the group program, but also ones that have worked with her individually and one family in particular between her two daughters. It's, it's, it's almost like a hundred thousand dollars that, that with, with scholarships and, and grants and some things that Dr.

Gabrielle has helped them acquire. And again, that was the one on one. But still, you know, thinking that I can't do it or whatever, that's half the battle.

So once you decide that there's a hundred billion dollars out there and there's plenty of money out there for you to go debt free, then you, you just go find him. Yeah.

Herb: 00:26:19

Earlier start the. Not only can you maybe get debt free, but you can actually make money to go to college.

Dr. Roz: 00:26:25

You can. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. Exactly.

Another tip that I would think about is if you, there's 33 states that if you work for their public, their, in their system, their college system, then you get tuition and fees for free as part of being an employee. So there are some schools that say if the parents weren't there, if one of the parents works there full time, then all of their kids get to go.

And so there are parents out there that are very strategically taking these full time jobs knowing that they have all these kids and it's like some people.

Herb: 00:27:03

Are like not pay that well up front, but if you have five or six kids, that's five or six hundred thousand dollars that you're not going to have to pay for college. Exactly. That, that, yeah, that's that.

It might, it might seem like Kind of strange up front, but you know, you save a couple hundred thousand dollars, that's like a huge bonus.

Dr. Roz: 00:27:21

Right, Right, right. And 40 hours a week is 24 of your week. So another mindset shift is we all get 168 hours a week. We all get to decide how we're spending that.

And for people who say, oh I'm, I'm in college or my kids in college and they can't work full time, they're gonna, those 40 hours are going to roll by, they're going to do something with those 40 hours. And your community is already so hyper aware of working smarter, not harder.

Your, your community is not Their, their, their little body needs to be sitting in a desk from 7:30 to 2:30. And so they already understand work smarter, not harder.

And so how can you maximize, if you needed to be employee, how can they maximize that 40 hours? So they're getting free tuition and fees. It might take them longer.

And I was sharing this with actually a good friend of mine who is a dean at, at one of the institutions that I'm familiar with and I was sharing with her this, that you know, at many schools that you know, if you work full time, that that's a way that students can earn a debt free degree. And she goes, no, no, students don't get free tuition.

And I said, I'm not talking about like student worker, I'm talking about being an actual employee. Like what are the jobs in higher ed that do not yet require a college diploma? Like working in the cafeteria or on the grounds crew or whatever.

She looked at me and she goes, oh Elizabeth, that would not work. That would throw off our, our graduation rates. Well, that was our end point right there.

Herb: 00:29:03

Thank you. Another, another tip is there are a lot of businesses that even if you're working part time, they will pay for your degree.

Dr. Roz: 00:29:11

Exactly.

Herb: 00:29:11

I know I, I met one guy that, that had the job that he wanted and he wanted a promotion and he needed a degree to get it.

So he went out and got a part time job at another company and that company was paying for his tuition to get the classes that he needed so that he could get the promotion in the job that he loved. And so it, it happened to be Walmart. So he was, he was, he had a part time job at Walmart because Walmart pays for tuition.

And then he was working part time from all Walmart, going to school part time to finish off his degree so that he could get promoted in the job that he had and that he loved. And so yeah, if you, if you get creative, if you know it's out there, if you know it's possible, then you can do it.

Like I said, when we went through it, we didn't know it was possible.

Kristina: 00:30:04

Right. Yeah.

Dr. Roz: 00:30:05

So, yeah.

Herb: 00:30:06

That these kind of ideas weren't out there. And now that they are, it's like more people need to hear about it. So that.

Dr. Roz: 00:30:12

Yes, yes.

Because what, what people often will hear when I'm talking about all these different ways, you can just watch them glaze over and go, that's too hard. Or I'm not going to do that.

Or, and, and I would love for folks like y'all and folks that have 100 grand in debt or 200 grand in debt to say to these young people, let me tell you what's hard.

Kristina: 00:30:34

Yeah.

Dr. Roz: 00:30:34

We tell you how hard it is to pay off. I, I just interviewed, actually a former student of mine when I was in higher ed and she graduated completely debt free.

Her husband, however, had $: 80000

They created a side hustle that they only did on the weekends and for two years, for 50 weekends a year. So they only had four weekends where they were not doing anything in this side hustle for two years and they paid off $80,000.

And she said, elizabeth, we're building a house. What would it have been like if we could have done that side hustle? And that 80 grand could have been as a down payment.

Kristina: 00:31:18

Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Roz: 00:31:19

Hard to pay off debt.

So for those of you that are like, I don't want to think about having to go to Walmart and work part time to get this degree, to get this promotion, you're going to, you're going to work hard. So it's choose your heart.

Kristina: 00:31:30

Yeah, yeah, choose your heart. Exactly. And I love that because you can either work part time as a Starbucks barista or work at Walmart or even drive UberEats. Right.

Because all of those companies help pay tuition. Ding ding, right there. People think about this and then have that money later for something else. Like a house like your family, like you want. Right.

Start early. And you know, especially like our homeschool families, you know, they know that when their kids become 16, they get their driver's license, etc.

Well, they've got a great handle on their education most usually. So then they're ready for a part time job.

Well, guess what, they can start working for those companies earlier or other companies, you know, and start building up either their nest egg or start doing classes and get those pre credentials done so that they can go.

Herb: 00:32:21

And another real big helpful tip is if you are going to go to college, know why? Yes. Know why you're going to go to college. Have a plan. Have, have.

Kristina: 00:32:33

Actually that was something I was going to ask you. When you work with families, is that part of it? Do you have them really think about why they're actually going and what they're really going for?

Dr. Roz: 00:32:42

Yeah, that's part of the ROI piece.

Herb: 00:32:44

Yeah.

Dr. Roz: 00:32:44

And so, so I, I walk them through this exercise where they go and they, they compare four different schools. So if you know you want a degree in engineering and so. And that, that actually that, that example is in the book.

And so you know, he, it is actually a student of mine who went through and compared four different schools and how different it is if you study engineering at a community college or an in state. State college or a private hoop to do institution or an out of state, very elite state institution.

So, so it's a, it is a state institution but it was out of state for this young man. And looking at all of the costs because you know, there are some, there are some schools that are very straightforward.

Here's the tuition and here's the fees and here's your bottom line. There are some that are like, here's the tuition.

If you choose this room, then that means you've got to choose this level or higher of a meal package. But if you choose this room, then there's this. And then if you choose this. Oh, but this major. Oh well, we're going to add a fee on there.

Oh, but this major also requires more science classes. So there are more lab fees. So they're more. I mean like, are you kidding me?

Kristina: 00:35:33

It's gotten that complicated to go to college now? Oh my golly. Because when we signed up, we signed up for, we had our syllabus of classes. We knew we had to take like 12 credits a term.

Dr. Roz: 00:35:43

Whatever, whatever.

Herb: 00:35:44

12 to 18.

Kristina: 00:35:45

Straightforward. Go get it done.

Dr. Roz: 00:35:47

Christina, I want you to know. Yeah. The most I've ever seen is there's, there's one institution and this is like two years ago. So I'm sure it's gone up by now.

The parking fee per semester. Parking. The permission to park your car on their asphalt for a semester. 800. $800 for a year of parking? No, no, no. For a semester? No, ma'am.

First semester. Sixteen hundred dollars for three months. Holy cow. Eight hundred a semester? Yes. So you really have to look at those fees.

Kristina: 00:36:23

Yeah. Or do you really need a Car one or the other. Right.

Dr. Roz: 00:36:28

Precisely. Precisely. So when you think about. If you can picture this in your mind, so there's X amount of.

This is how much a full tuition costs times this is how many semesters I need to be there. That's why you need plan. And this is my overall cost. Well, how do you bring this number down? You reduce one or the other or both.

Herb: 00:36:49

Yeah.

Dr. Roz: 00:36:49

So if you know that you want to go to that school, then maybe you don't do just 12 hours a semester. Maybe you do 18 hours, or maybe you do 21 hours and maybe you eat, sleep and breathe so you can get out of there six semesters.

Kristina: 00:37:03

Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Roz: 00:37:04

So that you've lowered it this way.

Herb: 00:37:06

Because I took 24 hour. I took 24 credits one semester. And it was like, yeah, I'm not going to do that again.

Dr. Roz: 00:37:13

Have to be able to handle it. But, but, but, Herb, would you do it again if you knew you were going to be debt free at the end?

Herb: 00:37:20

Oh, probably. Wow, that would be a tough one. I might go. I might drop it to 21 or to 18.

Kristina: 00:37:26

Okay.

Herb: 00:37:27

But 24. Yeah, that was. That was a bit much, but, yeah, I understand.

Dr. Roz: 00:37:31

Do you see the calculation you're making? You're making an ROI calculation right there. And good for you. You.

Herb: 00:37:36

Because I'm gonna. I'm gonna actually, like, tell on myself. It's like, I didn't go to college to get a degree. I am a super smart individual.

I knew I was going to get a degree. I went to college with a plan to find a wife, and so I found my wife. And we. So.

Dr. Roz: 00:37:56

Well, for you, sir.

Herb: 00:37:57

Yeah, so we've been so. In: 1989

To find a wife because the degree and the. And everything else was going to happen because I. I was smart. So gonna. So that was.

That totally was but the best investment I ever made, even though I did end up going into debt for it. Thank you.

Dr. Roz: 00:38:25

What if I told you, though, you could find the love of your life and go debt free?

Herb: 00:38:29

Right Again. See, back at that time, as both of us were the first of our families to go to college that had no clue. No clue.

Dr. Roz: 00:38:38

Right, right, right.

Kristina: 00:38:40

Awesome.

Herb: 00:38:40

Wouldn't have even thought to look it up because, you know, these words, these ideas weren't even in the peripheral. It's like, no, that's not how you go to college. So.

Kristina: 00:38:50

Well, and actually, we have a young person in our Life right now, who her, her adults in her life hadn't gone to college. And so luckily a friend of hers at high school took her under their wing and said, hey, have you started looking at scholarships?

Have you started looking at how to get to college? Because we know you want to go.

Herb: 00:39:09

She just got a full ride.

Kristina: 00:39:10

She just got a full ride. Yeah.

Dr. Roz: 00:39:14

That's huge.

Kristina: 00:39:16

It is huge.

Dr. Roz: 00:39:16

Yeah.

Kristina: 00:39:17

Thankfully somebody had a conversation. So that's the other thing that I just want to put out there for everybody who's listening in this audience.

Check in with other families, maybe you know, someone who, maybe their parents haven't gone to college. Make sure those kiddos get in this loop and understand, hey, these are the steps that you might want to take. Now if you're looking at college or.

Herb: 00:39:38

Just throw that concept out there and have them, hey, look, you can, you can get through college debt free. And there, there are people, there are people like Dr. Ross who actually help people figure that out too.

Dr. Roz: 00:39:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if, if folks go to my website, it's Dr. Roz Love. All the pages on my website have dot love at the end, so draws love forward slash dfd.

They go there, they sign up, they get a free chapter of the book. They get access to when I do my free webinars. So I do these webinars twice a month where I lay out the entire grip blueprint.

I ask questions, I mean, I answer questions. They ask questions and do laser coaching because I want this information out there. I really, really do. I'm getting ready.

Herb: 00:40:18

All that information will be in our show notes.

Kristina: 00:40:20

Excellent.

Herb: 00:40:20

Down below.

Dr. Roz: 00:40:21

Excellent. Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of free resources out there.

Kristina: 00:40:25

So, and I appreciate that because that was my next question I was just going to ask you, how do they find you? And now they know. Good.

Dr. Roz: 00:40:31

Yes, good. I had no idea that's what you were going to say.

Herb: 00:40:34

And even though there are resources out there, again, if you don't know to look for them, you will never find them. So now hopefully we'll get this out more, More people will know how to look for them and how to find them.

Dr. Roz: 00:40:45

Yeah.

Kristina: 00:40:46

Well, this has been a wonderful, wonderful conversation. Is there anything that we didn't touch on that you wanted to touch on?

Dr. Roz: 00:40:53

Oh, that's so open. Like, yeah, there are a million things because I really, I, I, it all comes back to being love centered.

How do you love yourself enough to graduate fully debt free from college? How do you love yourself enough to say yes to the best, say no to all that other stuff?

So you can really, really zone in on what your zone of genius is and really do what's best for you. What's so delightful is that oftentimes I'm talking to people who are in, you know, institutions that might have, you know, 3,000 students.

And so that's kind of a cookie cutter approach. Oftentimes. What's phenomenal about talking to you two is when I say, love yourself enough to do what's right for you.

Y'all have put in this whole infrastructure so that people understand when I say that what that means. They're already empowered. They already have that agency. And so that's why you're the perfect people to get this message out, because your.

Your folks are. Are eager to try the best thing that works for them. And I believe graduating debt free is the best thing that works for every single student.

Herb: 00:42:03

It would have been really good for us. Yeah.

Kristina: 00:42:06

And our two boys who were born around that time. And, and, and. Exactly. Well, Dr. Ross, thank you so very, very much. I really appreciate you being on the show.

All the tips and wisdom that you've dropped here, parents, audience, people who are listening, make sure that you're finding those gold nuggets that were just dropped in the show. Pick them up, take them with you, and then use them every single day to help you and your child be happy, healthy, and successful.

Herb: 00:42:30

Yep. Thank you for being here, Dr. Ross. This is such valuable information. And thank you for having the bravery to.

To put it out there to the world because, you know, so many people, again, see the problem and don't know what to do or don't try and help other people. And you're out there being a hero, helping other people, giving solutions, giving solutions. So thank you very much for being here today.

Thank you for your. For coming, and it's been a pleasure talking with you.

Dr. Roz: 00:42:55

Thanks. I appreciate y'all so much. Appreciate your audience. Thanks for having me.

Kristina: 00:42:59

You are very welcome. All right, audience, that is it for today. Make sure you leave a, like, review, a comment.

We need all of those so that these messages can get out to other families and make a difference. Until next time. Bye for now.

Herb: 00:43:10

Bye for now.